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Project "hang in inters", the last affordable two stroke?


fontyyy
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It beginsResizer_16236169131900.jpg.6a3fdaf214338f67653940ae076e3980.jpg

The blue box to the right contains most of two engines, there is a rollling chassis with a butchered frame (bottom engine mount removed) 6' in front of me and a load of bodywork 180° from the pic above.

So, that's the plan, get it running on a budget, and get it round the circuit that must not be named in a time that is respectable for inters, 2 mins is my target ;)

There is no timescale for this project.

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13 hours ago, fontyyy said:

It beginsResizer_16236169131900.jpg.6a3fdaf214338f67653940ae076e3980.jpg

The blue box to the right contains most of two engines, there is a rollling chassis with a butchered frame (bottom engine mount removed) 6' in front of me and a load of bodywork 180° from the pic above.

So, that's the plan, get it running on a budget, and get it round the circuit that must not be named in a time that is respectable for inters, 2 mins is my target ;)

There is no timescale for this project.

I'd start off by learning how to use an Abba stand 🤠

Subscribedededed.

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5 hours ago, MonkeyJim said:

I'd start off by learning how to use an Abba stand 🤠

Subscribedededed.

Lol, can't find the adaptor kit...I will ;)

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Without wanting to cause a huge thread drift "much approval of the project btw".. my recent trip to brands for a track day was quite the eye opener as to where track day bikes are now, mostly new bikes fully prepped, mostly litre and eye wateringly expensive. I think you'll struggle with the cornering of the inters lot, and be bored off your tits in the fast group..

Go racing fonts, you know it makes sense 🤣

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8 minutes ago, marvin said:

What bike is it? Or was it? Or will be?

It is, was, and always will be an Aprilia RS125 unless someone donates a Rotax 257 motor to me.

Hopefully, one day, it'll sound a bit like this.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Beanerno1 said:

Without wanting to cause a huge thread drift "much approval of the project btw".. my recent trip to brands for a track day was quite the eye opener as to where track day bikes are now, mostly new bikes fully prepped, mostly litre and eye wateringly expensive. I think you'll struggle with the cornering of the inters lot, and be bored off your tits in the fast group..

Go racing fonts, you know it makes sense 🤣

Don't think I'm quite the age for Superteens (cannot be 20 or older at start of season?).

So, Blue Haze GP it is then, shouldn't be a problem...a quick glance at MyLaps shows several people running well over 2 mins in the dry (at the circuit that must not be named, a couple of 2.15+ laps and 3 mins plus in the wet), mostly on MZ's but I'm not sure a fat 50+ year old on a 125 wouldn't be welcome.... hmmm.... racing ;)

 

Edited by fontyyy
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3 hours ago, Beanerno1 said:

Without wanting to cause a huge thread drift "much approval of the project btw".. my recent trip to brands for a track day was quite the eye opener as to where track day bikes are now, mostly new bikes fully prepped, mostly litre and eye wateringly expensive. I think you'll struggle with the cornering of the inters lot, and be bored off your tits in the fast group..

Go racing fonts, you know it makes sense 🤣

And I love a good thread drift, so please feel free, I'm not sure the situation you allude to really happens that much. I've really never had people "in the way" on a TD, if they are really that much slower in the corner...just ride round the outside of them, it's not like someone on a modern 600cc+ bike lapping near my pace on a 125 is going to be using the same lines is it? 

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Exactly that, if your chasing a big bike the lines will all be to cock,, then your just riding the track, which is great but lacks a little luster after a while..

Didn't mean my previous post to sound negative, if anything I went home and looked at track fairings for my big bike, the machines have moved on quite some since my track bike and I wanted some of that..

Previous trackdays had been lots of passes and friendly banter after a session, then various silliness the next time out, but tbh I couldn't get near the big bikes on my 400, but as pointed out by various folk, the iter group had such a spread of skill and speed the same would've happened...

Mebbe I'm just missing racing.. 🤣

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23 minutes ago, Beanerno1 said:

Mebbe I'm just missing racing.. 

Imho, it's not possible to not miss racing, the lack of outright pace at the BHGP has got me thinking dreaming, I don't want to win, not really, I just want to race someone, if that someone is doing 2.10+'s round Cadwell on an MZ well, I'm sure he'll be glad of the company, no matter what I ride.

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14 hours ago, fontyyy said:

Don't think I'm quite the age for Superteens (cannot be 20 or older at start of season?).

So, Blue Haze GP it is then, shouldn't be a problem...a quick glance at MyLaps shows several people running well over 2 mins in the dry (at the circuit that must not be named, a couple of 2.15+ laps and 3 mins plus in the wet), mostly on MZ's but I'm not sure a fat 50+ year old on a 125 wouldn't be welcome.... hmmm.... racing ;)

 

Blue Haze was on a split grid with the MZ's, so their times are separated by class and staggered start ;)

Project looks good though, always fancied a go on one of these little things. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, ZXRRDave said:

 staggered start 

Never understood this, presuming the fast class goes first they just run into lapped traffic earlier. Why?

As for backmarkers, all you're doing is making their day worse, more people lapping them and less people to race with.

Just let everyone go together and separate the class points out afterwards.

Edited by fontyyy
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1 hour ago, fontyyy said:

Never understood this, presuming the fast class goes first they just run into lapped traffic earlier. Why?

As for backmarkers, all you're doing is making their day worse, more people lapping them and less people to race with.

Just let everyone go together and separate the class points out afterwards.

You are not alone in those views. 😉

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6 minutes ago, ZXRRDave said:

You are not alone in those views. 😉

I don't see a situation where staggered starts help. Not at club level with 15-20% or more lap time difference across the class. All it says to me is the club organisers really have no idea....

I just don't get it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, fontyyy said:

All it says to me is the club organisers really have no idea....

That's a ridiculous statement to make. :facepalm:

There's certainly a few things that Bemsee did/do that I'm not keen on (including split and mixed grids) but to say they have "no idea" is just nonsense.

 

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17 hours ago, Damnthistinleg said:

That's a ridiculous statement to make. :facepalm:

There's certainly a few things that Bemsee did/do that I'm not keen on (including split and mixed grids) but to say they have "no idea" is just nonsense.

 

About that one subject (splitting grids when mixing classes), not all things!

Mixed grids are fine, indeed as class numbers drop mixed grids are arguably desirable, I've had some great battles with bikes in other classes, F125, Minitwin etc. As long as the bikes are similar ish it's fine, obv mixing GP 125 and 701-1300cc street stocks might be unwise.

But split grids? No, there's zero point to them, you might make the first corner or two safer (but purely as there are less bikes, nothing to do with the class of the bike) but then you make everything else worse and more dangerous.

 

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A lot of people don't like them, but they have their place where a mismatch in machinery is likely to cause issues. 

I've been on a shared grid where a bike with a 20% power advantage was chronically impeding 2 bikes fighting for championship positions by burping past one or both of them on the straights then wrecking their lines in the corners.

Similarly I've been on a split grid where I was a backmarker in my class and was caught by the leaders of the class that started behind us with a couple of corners to go, but they cleared through as if they were lapping any other rider that they were significantly quicker than, rather than their fight being spoiled by a rider lapping in similar times thanks to a machinery discrepancy as a result of differing classes. 

Both methods have their place and their reasons. Saying there is zero point to split grids simply isn't true.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, ZXRRDave said:

A lot of people don't like them, but they have their place where a mismatch in machinery is likely to cause issues. 

I've been on a shared grid where a bike with a 20% power advantage was chronically impeding 2 bikes fighting for championship positions by burping past one or both of them on the straights then wrecking their lines in the corners.

 

Imho, really mismatched machinery is a bad idea, many years ago DP mixed F400 with some dodgy old big engine streetstock class (with a no tyre warmers rule, WTF is the idea there?), absolute carnage, several if us said we wouldn't enter if they were on our grid again.

 

Anyway, I'm surprised the MZ's and BHGP's are staggered starts, the results are listed like they're one class. Are you sure?

 

 

Resizer_16238804081570.jpg.984bc1726f7226c54ffe0454b89aa9c2.jpg 

If so someone's gone to the effort of overlaying the results as if they run together...

***Edit***

in fact looking at the time sheets at 10.29.36am the leader on a Yam did sector 1 in 1.42.7 so his race started just before 10.28am
At 10.29.41 (so, 5 aeconds later) the first MZ did sector 1 in 1.44.9, so he also started almost exactly the same time. The slight difference (a couple of seconds) cannot be a split start, they wouldn't even have time to reset the lights, surely it's just where the rider was on the grid?

Edited by fontyyy
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The Production based blue haze bikes started about 30 or 40 seconds before the MZ's, the top 2 then caught and lapped all the MZ's as they were lapping 12 seconds quicker. So the first MZ's to cross the line were also the first lapped bikes - hence showing 6 laps instead of 7. (some of the blue haze bikes were also caught by the MZ's and lapped by their own leaders).

It wasn't quite the same in the F400/GP Blue haze split grid as the 400's started first and the fastest Gp 2 strokes were lapping at a similar pace to the fastest 400's.

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3 hours ago, ZXRRDave said:

The Production based blue haze bikes started about 30 or 40 seconds before the MZ's, the top 2 then caught and lapped all the MZ's as they were lapping 12 seconds quicker. So the first MZ's to cross the line were also the first lapped bikes - hence showing 6 laps instead of 7. (some of the blue haze bikes were also caught by the MZ's and lapped by their own leaders).

It wasn't quite the same in the F400/GP Blue haze split grid as the 400's started first and the fastest Gp 2 strokes were lapping at a similar pace to the fastest 400's.

Ah ha! That BTW is crazy.

So at Oulton a couple of weeks ago, on his laps 5 & 6 the fastest Mz (who would not get lapped in a normal race) is running just 5-10 seconds a lap slower and amongst the top 4 BHGP runners but is lap down?

And the BHGP guys are having to deal with bikes with half their power lapping just 10 seconds a lap slower.

Nuts.

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1 hour ago, fontyyy said:

Ah ha! That BTW is crazy.

So at Oulton a couple of weeks ago, on his laps 5 & 6 the fastest Mz (who would not get lapped in a normal race) is running just 5-10 seconds a lap slower and amongst the top 4 BHGP runners but is lap down?

And the BHGP guys are having to deal with bikes with half their power lapping just 10 seconds a lap slower.

Nuts.

Yep, it's essentially relegating the MZ's to being a 6 lap race instead of 7, however if the choice is that or your class being terminated then you take it. There's logistical and safety reasons why the grid is split rather than mixed, which I'm not qualified to understand or comment upon but from a race direction/clerk of the course point of view makes it necessary.

Neither the BHGP 'F' class or the MZ's have sufficient entries to fill the grid, so sharing is necessary and if it weren't viable one or both grids would die. It's a hard decision, but running meetings often is.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ZXRRDave said:

Neither the BHGP 'F' class or the MZ's have sufficient entries to fill the grid, so sharing is necessary and if it weren't viable one or both grids would die. It's a hard decision, but running meetings often is.

I agree with that, 100% and I have no problem with it.

But with BHGP boys both being fastest and slowest on track, and fast Mz's running top 6 overall times, I don't agree with staggering the start.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/14/2021 at 11:46 AM, MonkeyJim said:

I'd start off by learning how to use an Abba stand 🤠

Subscribedededed.

Found it! Stand by for a return to the subject ;)

Also whipped the "rolling chassis"* apart for the swingarm and forks to get a start after some cleaning (i.e. "someone" compained about 1/2 a motorbike in the middle of garden).

*hmmm, said rolling chassis bought very drunk on ebay without looking closely at the pics. The reason being the shed you can see in the top pic is a new, 14'x8' one, but is at the bottom of our garden, down a steep drive, a step, round a tight 90° 3' wide corner, another corner the other way and then down 5 steps then a sloped grass garden, my old ZX7r if it ever got down there would never get back up.
So, as I love the 2t's I just slapped a bid on it, £80 I think I won it for (the front wheel, swingarm and forks are worth that easy, the rear is damaged) and picked it up...I didn't even know the frame (or rear wheel) was useless but in retropect it was clear from the price he was just clearing out junk.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/14/2021 at 8:58 AM, CMSMJ1 said:

Come on then, plug chop chop :)

2minutes eh?  easy... :o 

Edited surely for accuracy 😉

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